fruits basket, volume eight (reread)
Apr. 28th, 2010 04:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wingblossomWelcome to another edition of the Unofficial Fruits Basket Reread! Before you start reading, grab a snack, sit down, and relax. ♥
For those who aren't familiar with this project,bell and I are rereading the Furuba manga with clearer eyes -- writing down our impressions as we go through each volume again and scrutinize its content, talking about new things we may have noticed this time around. We alternate posts between each volume, and reply back to keep the discussion going. If anyone has any thoughts they'd like to add, feel free to weigh in at any time!
In this post, I'll be talking about volume eight. However, do beware of spoilers for the whole series below the cut.
General reactions:
Good, interesting volume on the whole! The first half focuses mainly on Ritsu -- and then he's (almost) never seen again, poor guy -- while the second half is a lot more twisty and complex, showing that something is truly amiss in the Sohma family. Other notable things in this volume include Haru wreaking bloody havoc in a classroom, Tohru, Yuki, and Kyou preparing for summer break while realizing their lives are at a crossroads, sibling bonding between Ayame and Yuki, and our INTRODUCTION TO RIN. She's only there for a few panels, but it counts! There's also foreshadowing for Kureno's introduction as one of the Jyunishi, something I forgot about the first time I read this volume.
.
These chapters fly by. After a rather rough effort last time, Takaya's writing here is much more on the mark. There are a number of different plot threads, but they're integrated well, instead of in scattershot fashion like volume seven. I also like her art here. To be honest, whenever I think about Furuba's art, I'm of the opinion that it's only somewhat above average. But there's something immersive about Takaya's clean lines and panel progression; it manages to pull the reader in, which is amazing even with the less complex visual design.
Also, the second half of volume eight is way more entertaining than the first. I have to admit, Ritsu is my least favorite of the Jyunishi. The chapters that focus on him are vaguely amusing, but grow dull quick. Yes, sometimes I feel bad for disliking him -- I mean, the dude has absolutely no self-confidence whatsoever. But his hysterics do get on my nerves, more than I think Takaya intended. There's no shortage of characters in Furuba with poor self-esteem, but Ritsu is the only one who makes me want to tear my hair out with his shrinking violet fits of apologizing. (Side note: Shigure, stop being a jerk and spurring Ritsu on to even more fits of apoplexy.)
That said, I think his feelings of being useless at sports/academics/etcetera are basically psychosomatic. He's not stupid or uncoordinated or anything, but he's convinced himself that's the case. And since this is constantly reinforced by his parents' behavior, he acts this way in public, which continues the vicious cycle. It's a trend we see with all the Sohma, really, and the effect of Tohru-as-catalyst is to see if any of them can break out of these long-held patterns, self-imposed or otherwise. Lastly, I often forget that Ritsu is introduced after Kyou's true form is revealed. When it comes to the early portions of the story, the anime chronology takes precedence in my mind sometimes.
.
I am excited to see Rin on the scene! RIIIIIIN. Such an engaging character! And with her long hair intact for now, which is a minor blessing in disguise. I like how this volume foreshadows her role later on in the series, all the while providing hints for the reader to take however it suits them. In fact, I was amused to see Tohru jump to the conclusion that both the Horse and the Rooster were male, since she had just met Ricchan and assumed he was one of the three female Jyunishi. XD
I'm pretty fond of Rin and Haru's dynamic in general: their relationship is only beginning to surface here (I'm sure a lot of people went, "huh!?" when Haru mentioned he had a girlfriend), so one of the few things we know about Rin right now is that she...seemingly dumped Haru for no reason. (Again, I'm sure a lot of people were quick to judge Rin because of this.) Of course, that's not actually the case, and so she remains the lone mysterious and enigmatic figure at the moment. Or not lone at all, perhaps, considering that Kureno hasn't been introduced yet and Shigure just gets creepier by the minute.
Haru gets some well-deserved attention in this volume, and this is where he starts to become truly interesting. I always liked him, but his insecurities and placid strength here -- as seen in the classroom scenes and his conversations with Yuki, which sort of bookend the chapters -- are what really catch my attention. That is, along with his deadpan sense of humor. It's interesting to see the emphasis on Haru and Yuki's friendship here as well. Haru's constantly encouraging Yuki to be a bit more expressive about his feelings regarding Tohru, which Yuki does not respond well to at all. (In contrast, Haru has no compulsions when it comes to talking about Rin.) Again we see the repeated "lid" on Yuki's feelings, and his conviction that he's utterly selfish.
As for Yuki, I love how his angsty backstory memories are interrupted by Ayame's exuberance. XD If exuberance is the right word, ahem. It's just so much fun to see them interact -- Ayame wants an ~Interesting Story~ out of everything, and Yuki wants him to get to the point quickly. And then amidst all the arguing, there are smaller details to remind the reader that Ayame really is making an effort to get along with Yuki better. Like the fact that he brought peaches and crabs to Shigure's because Yuki liked them as a child, or the fact that he wanted to be capable of making something with his own hands, which ended up being sewing instead of cooking or gardening. It's very sweet. And then you find out that Ayame stitched "older brother's property" on the back of Yuki's shirt and facepalm at that.
Lastly, there's some good-natured humor with the horror house and start of summer break, along with certain signs of uneasiness and anxiety regarding the future. With Tohru, it has to do with Kyoko's death, and with Kyou, it has to do with, well, everything concerning his cursed state as the cat. But the last few pages are certainly ominous, hinting at signs of yet more plot developments to come.
.
Stuff I enjoyed:
*Seeing Ritsu borrow his first dress from Kagura. It's also a good reminder that Kagura's much older than she looks!
*Kazuma's haircut, and his explanation that he only kept his hair long in the past to improve Kyou's luck.
*Realizing that Yuki fails at bandaging people's arms.
*Shigure actually offering helpful advice! Not the advice he gives to Ritsu (although bizarrely, he is sort of right about that too, it just comes across as rather mean-spirited), but in terms of dealing with a lot of burdens and starting "with the laundry right at your feet." Really, it IS sensible advice, and offsets much of the other dialogue we're used to hearing from Shigure.
*This exchange. Haru's thought processes are so "???" inducing sometimes. XD
*I also loved these panels when I first saw them in tankouban format.
Stuff I wasn't too fond of:
Like I've explained, Ritsu tends to grate on my nerves. I admit to skimming through his sections a bit, but since Ritsu isn't a major player in the storyline, I don't feel terribly guilty about this.
Silly fanart idea:
AHAHA, AAYA EATS EVEN HIS SOBA WITH CONFIDENCE. I think I may have to sketch a 4koma for that, with Ayame explaining how to eat soba ~the right way~. As a king would, when facing his subjects!
Overall:
Enjoyable volume, and I know that even better chapters are yet to come! I'm looking forward to them. I know that summer break is a turning point for all the characters, so in a way, this is very much the calm before the storm.
Links to previous volumes:
Volume One
Volume Two
Volume Three
Volume Four
Volume Five
Volume Six
Volume Seven
For those who aren't familiar with this project,
bell and I are rereading the Furuba manga with clearer eyes -- writing down our impressions as we go through each volume again and scrutinize its content, talking about new things we may have noticed this time around. We alternate posts between each volume, and reply back to keep the discussion going. If anyone has any thoughts they'd like to add, feel free to weigh in at any time! In this post, I'll be talking about volume eight. However, do beware of spoilers for the whole series below the cut.
General reactions:
Good, interesting volume on the whole! The first half focuses mainly on Ritsu -- and then he's (almost) never seen again, poor guy -- while the second half is a lot more twisty and complex, showing that something is truly amiss in the Sohma family. Other notable things in this volume include Haru wreaking bloody havoc in a classroom, Tohru, Yuki, and Kyou preparing for summer break while realizing their lives are at a crossroads, sibling bonding between Ayame and Yuki, and our INTRODUCTION TO RIN. She's only there for a few panels, but it counts! There's also foreshadowing for Kureno's introduction as one of the Jyunishi, something I forgot about the first time I read this volume.
. These chapters fly by. After a rather rough effort last time, Takaya's writing here is much more on the mark. There are a number of different plot threads, but they're integrated well, instead of in scattershot fashion like volume seven. I also like her art here. To be honest, whenever I think about Furuba's art, I'm of the opinion that it's only somewhat above average. But there's something immersive about Takaya's clean lines and panel progression; it manages to pull the reader in, which is amazing even with the less complex visual design.
Also, the second half of volume eight is way more entertaining than the first. I have to admit, Ritsu is my least favorite of the Jyunishi. The chapters that focus on him are vaguely amusing, but grow dull quick. Yes, sometimes I feel bad for disliking him -- I mean, the dude has absolutely no self-confidence whatsoever. But his hysterics do get on my nerves, more than I think Takaya intended. There's no shortage of characters in Furuba with poor self-esteem, but Ritsu is the only one who makes me want to tear my hair out with his shrinking violet fits of apologizing. (Side note: Shigure, stop being a jerk and spurring Ritsu on to even more fits of apoplexy.)
That said, I think his feelings of being useless at sports/academics/etcetera are basically psychosomatic. He's not stupid or uncoordinated or anything, but he's convinced himself that's the case. And since this is constantly reinforced by his parents' behavior, he acts this way in public, which continues the vicious cycle. It's a trend we see with all the Sohma, really, and the effect of Tohru-as-catalyst is to see if any of them can break out of these long-held patterns, self-imposed or otherwise. Lastly, I often forget that Ritsu is introduced after Kyou's true form is revealed. When it comes to the early portions of the story, the anime chronology takes precedence in my mind sometimes.
. I am excited to see Rin on the scene! RIIIIIIN. Such an engaging character! And with her long hair intact for now, which is a minor blessing in disguise. I like how this volume foreshadows her role later on in the series, all the while providing hints for the reader to take however it suits them. In fact, I was amused to see Tohru jump to the conclusion that both the Horse and the Rooster were male, since she had just met Ricchan and assumed he was one of the three female Jyunishi. XD
I'm pretty fond of Rin and Haru's dynamic in general: their relationship is only beginning to surface here (I'm sure a lot of people went, "huh!?" when Haru mentioned he had a girlfriend), so one of the few things we know about Rin right now is that she...seemingly dumped Haru for no reason. (Again, I'm sure a lot of people were quick to judge Rin because of this.) Of course, that's not actually the case, and so she remains the lone mysterious and enigmatic figure at the moment. Or not lone at all, perhaps, considering that Kureno hasn't been introduced yet and Shigure just gets creepier by the minute.
Haru gets some well-deserved attention in this volume, and this is where he starts to become truly interesting. I always liked him, but his insecurities and placid strength here -- as seen in the classroom scenes and his conversations with Yuki, which sort of bookend the chapters -- are what really catch my attention. That is, along with his deadpan sense of humor. It's interesting to see the emphasis on Haru and Yuki's friendship here as well. Haru's constantly encouraging Yuki to be a bit more expressive about his feelings regarding Tohru, which Yuki does not respond well to at all. (In contrast, Haru has no compulsions when it comes to talking about Rin.) Again we see the repeated "lid" on Yuki's feelings, and his conviction that he's utterly selfish.
As for Yuki, I love how his angsty backstory memories are interrupted by Ayame's exuberance. XD If exuberance is the right word, ahem. It's just so much fun to see them interact -- Ayame wants an ~Interesting Story~ out of everything, and Yuki wants him to get to the point quickly. And then amidst all the arguing, there are smaller details to remind the reader that Ayame really is making an effort to get along with Yuki better. Like the fact that he brought peaches and crabs to Shigure's because Yuki liked them as a child, or the fact that he wanted to be capable of making something with his own hands, which ended up being sewing instead of cooking or gardening. It's very sweet. And then you find out that Ayame stitched "older brother's property" on the back of Yuki's shirt and facepalm at that.
Lastly, there's some good-natured humor with the horror house and start of summer break, along with certain signs of uneasiness and anxiety regarding the future. With Tohru, it has to do with Kyoko's death, and with Kyou, it has to do with, well, everything concerning his cursed state as the cat. But the last few pages are certainly ominous, hinting at signs of yet more plot developments to come.
. Stuff I enjoyed:
*Seeing Ritsu borrow his first dress from Kagura. It's also a good reminder that Kagura's much older than she looks!
*Kazuma's haircut, and his explanation that he only kept his hair long in the past to improve Kyou's luck.
*Realizing that Yuki fails at bandaging people's arms.
*Shigure actually offering helpful advice! Not the advice he gives to Ritsu (although bizarrely, he is sort of right about that too, it just comes across as rather mean-spirited), but in terms of dealing with a lot of burdens and starting "with the laundry right at your feet." Really, it IS sensible advice, and offsets much of the other dialogue we're used to hearing from Shigure.
*This exchange. Haru's thought processes are so "???" inducing sometimes. XD
*I also loved these panels when I first saw them in tankouban format.
Stuff I wasn't too fond of:
Like I've explained, Ritsu tends to grate on my nerves. I admit to skimming through his sections a bit, but since Ritsu isn't a major player in the storyline, I don't feel terribly guilty about this.
Silly fanart idea:
AHAHA, AAYA EATS EVEN HIS SOBA WITH CONFIDENCE. I think I may have to sketch a 4koma for that, with Ayame explaining how to eat soba ~the right way~. As a king would, when facing his subjects!
Overall:
Enjoyable volume, and I know that even better chapters are yet to come! I'm looking forward to them. I know that summer break is a turning point for all the characters, so in a way, this is very much the calm before the storm.
Links to previous volumes:
Volume One
Volume Two
Volume Three
Volume Four
Volume Five
Volume Six
Volume Seven
no subject
on 2010-05-03 01:09 am (UTC)First off, you did a pretty good recap here! :3 I can't disagree with it-- a lot of focus on Ritsu (who'll barely appear after this lolololol) with the rest laying the groundwork for us to discover just how extra-creepy the Sohma family *really* is. Like you, Ritsu doesn't interest me much-- the hysteria gets overdone, and it's a pity that the cross-dressing character gets a quick ~~fix-it~~ through the power of HETEROSEXUAL LOOOOVE-- so I'll focus on the rest. (Side-note: one of the series tropes is focusing on one of the character's dramas for a few chapters and while it was very effective at first, it... just gets overdone, adlkfjadlkfj. Hiro's and Ritsu's don't work very well for me. And by the time we get to Rin's, I was cringing, WE HAVE HAD ENOOOUGH. I'm sure it was intentional, but in many ways I wish Takaya-sensei hadn't overused that storytelling technique, as I think she's more effective when she's weaving multiple plotlines, like she did in the last three chapters of this volume.)
There are several moments in this volume that makes me pause, going, "what's behind this?" Haru's destruction of the classroom; Haru breaking up with his girlfriend; Yuki's sinister melancholy at the mention of his parents/future; Kyou's despondency at his own post-school prospects; and those last few pages with Rin, Shigure, and Akito. I remember they confused me at the time, too, and reading them now I'm all OOHHHHHHH FORESHADOWIIIIIING. I forgot that Tohru didn't know about Kyou's fate of going to prison! Which makes sense, since that becomes a major motivational point for her.
Rin makes *such* a splash here. Like you mention, Takaya-sensei may not have gorgeous art, but she is effective. Her strength lays in layout/composition, perhaps, and expressing emotions... but damn that first page we see with Rin, staring out angry and determined and sick from her long strands of hair. No one needed to tell me, "this girl is determined, and this girl is angry, and this girl is carrying a weight with her." I *saw* it. You mention what readers must've thought at the time-- I think I was intrigued! And I didn't want her with Haru (I was disappointed that another maybe-gay character was straight, I'll admit ;___;), and I thought she must've been in love with Shigure, from her words about how it could be no one but him. I think Rin ends up being one of the most interesting characters of the series...! But, so, yeah, like you, I loved-- and still love-- those panels. DAMN, TAKAYA-SENSEI. <333
One thing I'm wondering about is the significance of some of the stories in the series. The one I don't quite get is the one Haru tells in the ghost house. Why is it there in the series, why did Haru tell it? Was he thinking of himself, how much he wanted to be with Rin, and how any cost (even ripping off your own head) would be worth it to be with them again? I don't think Takaya-sensei would've stuck such a long story just for the hell of it, so-- oh. It might not just be Haru. It might be the whole Sohma clan, and the curse. They wanted so badly to stay together that they caused great hurt to themselves....!
The other story I wonder about is the one Shigure told to Tohru, about washing one piece of laundry at a time. It's a sweet story (if in kind of disturbing gendered dynamics, women -> washing laundry, etc), and the advice was good. BUT SHIGURE HAS ULTERIOR MOTIVES LOL. I guess he didn't want Tohru to become discouraged from the task he wants her to accomplish. :D? He knows she has a long way to go, and wanted to give her advice on how to not lose courage?
Yuki, too... felt so dark and distant in this volume. At least, to Tohru. There were some panels were they were talking, and there was a guuulf between them-- Yuki closing himself off, it felt like-- and the art emphasized that, using black backgrounds. Awww. ;__; Meanwhile, Tohru and Kyou are having heart-to-hearts. And Yuki is opening up to at least Haru. Which was nice. I do like their friendship. ♥ You mention how Haru starts to become interesting-- I think he was, before, but here he acquires a third dimension? Because we learn about his own drama, his own problems, rather than just being pretty eye-candy support for the other characters.
I think the BIG THINGS AHEAD foreshadowing about the summer was a bit heavy-handed, but there *are* big things ahead, and I feel like she at least delivers on just how epic it's gonna be, so....?
The humor, like you mention, is pretty good in this chapter. :3 One moment I think you don't mention is Tohru going "The peaches are tasty, aren't they!" and Yuki goes, "I guess :D???" and Tohru beams. They sooo aren't getting each other by that point. *laughs*
This is one of my favorite moments of the whole series. I love it even more in Japanese. <333
no subject
on 2010-05-05 03:23 pm (UTC)Agreed! Although...you've seen the omake, right? It continues to amuse me that Mit-chan has no idea if Ritsu is a woman or not after they've ALREADY BEEN OUT on a few dates (because he keeps wearing that furisode!), and feels too uncomfortable to actually ask him about it. XD That's slightly more ambiguous than what Takaya did with the other couples.
(Side-note: one of the series tropes is focusing on one of the character's dramas for a few chapters and while it was very effective at first, it... just gets overdone, adlkfjadlkfj. Hiro's and Ritsu's don't work very well for me. And by the time we get to Rin's, I was cringing, WE HAVE HAD ENOOOUGH. I'm sure it was intentional, but in many ways I wish Takaya-sensei hadn't overused that storytelling technique, as I think she's more effective when she's weaving multiple plotlines, like she did in the last three chapters of this volume.)
I actually liked Rin's chapters quite a bit! I mean, I see that the storytelling technique she used was overused by that point, but I found Rin interesting, so I didn't feel like I was reading the same thing over and over again ad nauseum. I also liked her character arc for showcasing how developed Haru and Rin's relationship was, particularly in relation to the other Jyunishi, and showing the extent of Akito's internalized misogyny. Those bits, imo, went a lot further than just focusing on Rin's personal drama to the detriment of the overall plot.
Rin makes *such* a splash here. Like you mention, Takaya-sensei may not have gorgeous art, but she is effective. Her strength lays in layout/composition, perhaps, and expressing emotions... but damn that first page we see with Rin, staring out angry and determined and sick from her long strands of hair. No one needed to tell me, "this girl is determined, and this girl is angry, and this girl is carrying a weight with her." I *saw* it.
I still think I have the tendency to underrate Takaya's art whenever I talk about it! Because while Takaya's art may be average in areas like background detail and color theory, she makes up for it in overall composition and character design. (Yes, character design. It never ceases to impress me how distinctive Furuba's characters are, especially for shoujo manga, where the usual differentiators besides physical build come down to length of hair and size of eyes.)
You mention what readers must've thought at the time-- I think I was intrigued! And I didn't want her with Haru (I was disappointed that another maybe-gay character was straight, I'll admit ;___;), and I thought she must've been in love with Shigure, from her words about how it could be no one but him. I think Rin ends up being one of the most interesting characters of the series...! But, so, yeah, like you, I loved-- and still love-- those panels. DAMN, TAKAYA-SENSEI. <333
Well, when I say what "readers must have thought," I'm basically paraphrasing what I saw in blog posts and the mailing list around that time. XD So it's not really guesswork; it's how a lot of fans did react. Still, I was intrigued by Rin too, since she had so much presence. I was also wondering if something else was up with her, other than the traumatic family background that most of the other Sohma had -- and as it turned out, nope, not at all. A bit disappointing in that respect, since when she initially started talking to Shigure and so on, I thought that she would have more of a hand in breaking the actual curse.
One thing I'm wondering about is the significance of some of the stories in the series.
Which other stories are you thinking of? The only other one that comes instantly to mind is Momiji's story about the foolish traveler. :D And the meaning behind that one is, I think, pretty obvious.
The one I don't quite get is the one Haru tells in the ghost house. Why is it there in the series, why did Haru tell it? Was he thinking of himself, how much he wanted to be with Rin, and how any cost (even ripping off your own head) would be worth it to be with them again? I don't think Takaya-sensei would've stuck such a long story just for the hell of it, so-- oh. It might not just be Haru. It might be the whole Sohma clan, and the curse. They wanted so badly to stay together that they caused great hurt to themselves....!
Yep. Cycles and cycles of descendants, crushing effects of abuse...I have to say, I would not want to be stuck in any of their shoes. (And the Cat is the only one who realized this might not be a good thing. Shame on everyone else?) And what about the effects of stories in the Sohma clan and in Furuba on the whole? Like the history of the zodiac animals themselves, or Tohru's affection for the Cat as a child, based on what Kyoko told her?
The other story I wonder about is the one Shigure told to Tohru, about washing one piece of laundry at a time. It's a sweet story (if in kind of disturbing gendered dynamics, women -> washing laundry, etc), and the advice was good. BUT SHIGURE HAS ULTERIOR MOTIVES LOL. I guess he didn't want Tohru to become discouraged from the task he wants her to accomplish. :D? He knows she has a long way to go, and wanted to give her advice on how to not lose courage?
!! You know, I have to say I never thought of it that way! Either in terms of gender dynamics (possibly because I saw it as Shigure handing out that advice in a general sense, and not just aimed at Tohru) or ulterior motives. WOW, I FEEL DENSE. I may have given Shigure too little credit here for being a tactitian, and too much credit for being a genuinely decent human being. That will not happen again.
Yuki, too... felt so dark and distant in this volume. At least, to Tohru. There were some panels were they were talking, and there was a guuulf between them-- Yuki closing himself off, it felt like-- and the art emphasized that, using black backgrounds. Awww. ;__; Meanwhile, Tohru and Kyou are having heart-to-hearts. And Yuki is opening up to at least Haru. Which was nice. I do like their friendship. ♥ You mention how Haru starts to become interesting-- I think he was, before, but here he acquires a third dimension? Because we learn about his own drama, his own problems, rather than just being pretty eye-candy support for the other characters.
Hahah, I wouldn't say that Haru lacked depth of his own before this volume, but it was about time that had his own focus in the storyline. The more I read Furuba, the more I appreciate him as a character. Like Momiji, I feel like he's the kind of guy who could get potentially gypped in a lot of ways (in his own mellow fashion, he always goes out of his way to help others, and rarely asks anything for himself in return), but the story treats him well enough on the whole.
I think the BIG THINGS AHEAD foreshadowing about the summer was a bit heavy-handed, but there *are* big things ahead, and I feel like she at least delivers on just how epic it's gonna be, so....?
Definitely! There'll be a truckload of things to talk about from now to the end of volume ten, at least.
The humor, like you mention, is pretty good in this chapter. :3 One moment I think you don't mention is Tohru going "The peaches are tasty, aren't they!" and Yuki goes, "I guess :D???" and Tohru beams. They sooo aren't getting each other by that point. *laughs*
Er, I don't remember that exchange. XD What chapter was it in, again?
This is one of my favorite moments of the whole series. I love it even more in Japanese. <333
Likewise! I think I pointed it out in the list of things I really liked this volume, actually.
no subject
on 2010-06-06 02:53 pm (UTC)!!!!! I either never saw that or plain forgot. That *is* pretty awesome. I like that Mitchan seems to be okay with Ritsu being either female or male :D (that is, I assume she is, if she kept dating him without knowing). Sounds like it took them a while to get much clothes off... XD *guttermind*
when she initially started talking to Shigure and so on, I thought that she would have more of a hand in breaking the actual curse.
Yeah. .__. When she started going after Rin I thought she might be a key player, but she ended up as one more concerned person, only with more knowledge? I suppose there wasn't much more Rin *could* do, since to break the curse was as simple as Tohru falling in love with Kyou... otoh Shigure seems to take more of the credit for getting the ball rolling?? (Well he did introduce them... I wonder, how did Shigure know it'd work out with Tohru? And she *did* just kind of fall into their laps, it's not like Shigure FOUND her. Unless his brilliant strategy was to lay out his jyuunishi figurines and wait for the right-aged person to come and What About The Cat?! *snorts*)
Which other stories are you thinking of?
Mmm, I don't know! The ones you listed and the ones I extrapolated on in this post, plus anymore we come across as we go along the series. :3
(And the Cat is the only one who realized this might not be a good thing. Shame on everyone else?)
XD Pretty much! HOW DARE HE NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF ETERNAL BONDAGE. (I guess this means Kyou wouldn't be into S&M and woah I really am gutterminding a lot today! :D)
I may have given Shigure too little credit here for being a tactitian, and too much credit for being a genuinely decent human being.
He could be both asshole tactician and decent human being, no? :D? Ultimately he did a looooot of people a lot of good but he was willing to make others hurt muchly and I think if there had been need for crueler sacrifices, he'd have made them...
Er, I don't remember that exchange. XD What chapter was it in, again?
Last page of Ayame's chapter, if I remember correctly! Tohru is happy that Ayame was right in remembering that Yuki likes the peaches so she's beaming at Yuki for that, and Yuki totally doesn't understand why she's so happy with a few peaces. X3
no subject
on 2010-06-06 05:38 pm (UTC)Me too! I mean, I shouldn't be happy that they're still uncomfortable around each other, but that is a priceless example of gender ambiguity. (Come to think of it, Mit-chan doesn't always look stereotypically feminine, what with her close-cropped hair...)
Sounds like it took them a while to get much clothes off... XD *guttermind*
Well. XD If you look at it that way...they're Ricchan and Mit-chan, bell. RICCHAN AND MIT-CHAN. I think that's all that needs to be said.
And she *did* just kind of fall into their laps, it's not like Shigure FOUND her. Unless his brilliant strategy was to lay out his jyuunishi figurines and wait for the right-aged person to come and What About The Cat?!
Shigure totally planned everything from the start. *g* As for Rin, I think that I wouldn't have been bothered had the story not built up the impression that she was going to do more from the start. Instead? She ends up locked away in a cage. And with a haircut. God damn it. (And yes, I do mean that both literally and figuratively.)
I guess this means Kyou wouldn't be into S&M and woah I really am gutterminding a lot today! :D
YOU REALLY ARE, BELL. YOU REALLY, REALLY ARE.
who would be into that, I wonder (oh great, now I'm gutterminding too)He could be both asshole tactician and decent human being, no? :D? Ultimately he did a looooot of people a lot of good but he was willing to make others hurt muchly and I think if there had been need for crueler sacrifices, he'd have made them...
It's possible, yes...why does everything you just said remind me of Ruka from Utena!?
Last page of Ayame's chapter, if I remember correctly! Tohru is happy that Ayame was right in remembering that Yuki likes the peaches so she's beaming at Yuki for that, and Yuki totally doesn't understand why she's so happy with a few peaces.
Aha, thanks! That's a cute detail; I'll have to go back and read that.
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on 2010-06-06 06:00 pm (UTC):O And her suits! More and more interesting, ufufufu~ And yes your point about whom we're talking about stands. I wonder if they'd even kiss before their wedding...? .__.
Shigure totally planned everything from the start. *g*
But how can you plan Girls Meets Boy, Girl Loves Boy? *boggles*
Instead? She ends up locked away in a cage. And with a haircut. God damn it. (And yes, I do mean that both literally and figuratively.)
...Now I'm all depressed. RIIIIN.
ho would be into that, I wonder (oh great, now I'm gutterminding too)
:D :DDD Maybe Ayame? I don't know! He seems to like different costumes -> trying on different identities? And he has a lot of guilt that could be relieved through S&M? And Mine seems like she'd enjoy being a dom... Shigure too comes to mind-- he fell in love with the great master of the whole family, no?
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on 2010-06-07 12:53 am (UTC)Eheh, now I kind of want to read fic about that! How do two characters like Ritsu and Mit-chan work up the courage to be in a relationship, anyway?
But how can you plan Girls Meets Boy, Girl Loves Boy? *boggles*
You can't. XD I was joking about the "Shigure totes planned everything" comment, because no matter how good he may be at manipulation, there's no way he'd be able to plan entirely for details like that.
Maybe Ayame? I don't know! He seems to like different costumes -> trying on different identities?
I don't know if I've ever seen Ayame as the bondage type, despite the fact that he is a snake. XD Then again, the fact that he and Mine are ever! so! slightly! kinky (without pushing things too far by HtY standards, of course) does give me the impression that could be the case.
Shigure too comes to mind-- he fell in love with the great master of the whole family, no?
Yeah, he was actually the first one who came to mind after I finished writing that comment. *g* I wonder how Akito'd feel about that, though...(For that matter, I wondered about Kureno for a bit, but I can't shake the impression that he's pretty vanilla.)
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on 2012-10-07 05:33 am (UTC)I also love how the end scene of this volume is basically foreshadowing the future events that'll play out, Takaya is definitely a master at this, and having finished the series and re-reading the earlier volumes its jaw-dropping how there were so many hints sprinkled here and there, but yet I couldn't even notice it!
For example this one panel with Shigure, when first reading the manga I had thought him nothing but a comic-relief kind-hearted man but now looking back, oh how wrong I was! And I feel so utterly foolish that I didn't notice these hints scattered throughout ha-ha.
Its sad though that out of all the Furuba characters, Shigure remains the one who's backround is entirely shrouded in mystery and I wonder if there were any reasons Takaya-sensei did that? Was this deliberate, or did she just not have enough time?
Like it especially always confused me just why Shigure fell so hard in love with Akito in the first place, re-reading the earlier volumes its revealed its because of that dream he and the other 3 had of God's conception but then it makes you wonder why it affected him so strongly like that but not the others? Also, if it was all because of that dream does he even truly love Akito for herself? Some food for thought.
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on 2012-10-11 06:50 am (UTC)Re: the manga, was that your first exposure to Furuba? Because even in some scenes of the anime, there are scenes where it looks like he's playing crafty at something -- but then they pull away from that to make him less morally ambiguous. I was kind of gratified that my reading of him was closer than I thought after getting into the manga.
Sometimes wrt storytelling, more is less, and I think that's true of Shigure's character as well. I mean, it would be fun to know more details about his background (those flashbacks of him back in high school are too few in number), but it might not necessarily add to the narrative as a whole, you know?
As to the other questions, that's more food for thought when getting to the later volumes!
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on 2012-10-11 07:45 am (UTC)The manga was my first exposure, but I picked up the anime sometime later. Couldn't stand it though once I read the later volumes as they omitted a lot of details and changed character's personalities while not really adding anything new so it just felt like a poor man's Furuba you know? Shigure's character change is one of the biggest things I dislike about the anime and yes, while they do sort of give hints that he's planning something, its all pretty much derailed during the last few episodes when he acts completely OOC. (Shigure crying? Really?)
Don't get me wrong, I used to love the Furuba anime! But after reading volumes 10 and up I began to see what a pretty weak adaptation it was. I think its probably the anime that gives people the perception that Shigure is just a comic relief character, that was always my impression until I read the later volumes of the manga and then started re-reading the earlier volumes once I was finished.
On the character front, I can see what you mean but I still stand by my opinion that Fruits Basket was rushed. It wouldn't have hurt for it to be a few more volumes long, just to fill in the details. I think I recall that Takaya said herself that there were a lot of characters that she wanted to do explore more, but couldn't due to time constraints. Not just Shigure, I would've liked to see more of Ritsu or Haru's backround.
Ha-ha yep! ;) And I can't wait till you get to the other volumes, as things just get more and more suspenseful from here on out.
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on 2012-10-11 11:20 am (UTC)Yours is the popular opinion, but I dunno, I still appreciate the anime for what it is. Most of the material it covered was before the manga took a dark(er) turn, which is why it seems sugary in comparison. But it had great comedic timing and vibrancy -- it didn't feel by-the-numbers, which is my problem when it comes to adaptations. It had its flaws, but I like it even in hindsight.
Ah, maybe, yeah. My biggest issue with the later story is the number of contrivances; if the manga were longer, maybe it would have come across as less forced?
Yep, it'll be fun!
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on 2012-10-11 04:43 pm (UTC)Hmm, yeah I suppose the anime had its merits too, I did like the different theme they were trying to go with it. While the manga was all about bonds, and the effects of child abuse and having the strength to move on, the anime was all about appreciating life and never giving up on it. That's a beautiful lesson in and of itself and I do admit that the anime ending made me misty-eyed, it was very touching. Still... I can't really get past how they changed the characters, particularly Shigure and Tohru.
Oh? This is new, what you mean by "by the numbers?" How did it not feel like that? That's the first I've heard someone say that about the anime, ha-ha.
Oh yes, exactly this! Most of it just felt too sloppily forced and a little too convenient. Like, were we really supposed to believe that it was just a coincidence that Yuki became best friends with the guy who's girlfriend's father got killed in the same accident that killed Kyoko? Really? Not to mention the fact that they never bother to explain why the curse affected the Sohmas in particular or why the Cat had that monster-form. I don't know, alot of stuff felt either too strung together or not explained enough. I wonder why she couldn't make it longer?
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on 2012-10-28 06:17 am (UTC)I think Takaya Natsuki's art style is pretty stable now, yeah. It's pretty, but not very dynamic...
When I say "not by the numbers," I mean that the director's style comes clearly through, and that they worked with the material, rather than adapting it page-by-page. This can be contentious if they change things too drastically, but if it's exactly the same, might as well just read the manga, you know? I think the Furuba anime takes advantage of the audiovisual format, with the sound effects and stylization.
There's a lot in the later volumes that felt less than convincing, but it's easier to talk about that when I go back and read those volumes again. Aside from everything you mentioned, the whole Kyoko and Kyou connection always came across as really half-baked to me.
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on 2012-10-28 10:42 am (UTC)I don't know... I feel they changed extremely important aspects of Tohru, like how in the manga she immediately chased after Kyo while in the anime she had to be convinced. I suppose they did that to make her seem more human and make the ending more dramatic but it still kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, cause that's not Tohru.
Tohru has experienced herself what its like to be viewed and regarded as disgusting, she wouldn't be so bothered about it that she would actually need "pushing" to accept Kyo. That's just not in her nature, she knows how it feels to be rejected and so she embraces everyone whole-heartedly.
Ha-ha, maybe I'm being a little harsh on the anime I mean its a great work in and of itself but I felt like it could of done so, so much better.
Like, the scenes you just mentioned. That was definitely one of the areas the anime succeeded at, they didn't just do a straight adaptation so that it was nothing more than moving manga pictures. They actually were quite dynamic and added their own spice and humor which I really appreciated. But again, I felt this failed because while they were extremely faithful to some areas of the manga, others they completely omitted which I felt there was no need for.
Really? I didn't find it that impossible, I actually quite liked Kyo's connection to Kyoko. I thought it brought the story full circle and it also explained Kyo's feelings in Tohru. It gave him more of an incentive to be with her than Yuki.
What I thought was really ridiculous was the whole "Kakeru's girlfriend's father being the one that ultimately killed Kyoko." That was pretty stupid and hard to believe.
Also, while I the Yuki/Machi pairing has grown on me I also thought that one was a little too unbelievable. When Kakeru got introduced I thought for sure Yuki would pair up with him, I mean they were perfect for each other!
lol, I have a lot of feelings about this manga. XD
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on 2012-10-28 11:22 am (UTC)I'm sure that even if this weren't the case, many fans would still act like that just for the sake of m/m slash, but this happens all the time, so it doesn't really surprise me...
I think it worked well for the anime climax? It may seem too weak for the Tohru who proved her mettle in the manga, but as a standalone, it didn't bother me. Even in the anime up to that point, Tohru had never really faltered, so it did up the tension a bit as far as that was concerned. If the anime had continued after that point, I would probably agree with you.
And hey, maybe it could have been done better! But I'm willing to reserve judgment on that without, say, another anime adaptation to hold it in comparison. (Although I wouldn't be opposed to that either.)
Yeah, a lot of the things I thought were contrived in the latter half were meant to bring the story full circle. While it is nice to have a degree of cause-and-effect in a story, there is a point where you can overdo it, and I think Furuba definitely did. I can clearly see what she was going for, and at the same time, it came off as cheesy rather than clever storytelling. "Kakeru's girlfriend's father killing Kyoko" was a more extreme example, but I couldn't invest myself in Kyou's side of the story at that point.
Hahah, I'm not sure that Yuki/Machi has completely grown on me yet! I like it more in theory than in execution. I'm actually looking forward to the student council sections more than I expected, though, since I like them more now that I see where Takaya was going with them to the end.
And yes, but that's never a bad thing. :D
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on 2012-10-29 09:29 am (UTC)But honestly, yeah I get what you mean, that was also one of my main issues with the manga. While I love the Akito character and the whole extremely feminist concept behind her, her whole cross-dressing thing did seem pretty transphobic, though that's nothing to say of Ritsu's character arc which seemed completely transphobic!
Really? I've not had that experience with the Shojo I read. Natsuki Takaya actually seems one of the more anti-LBGT Shojo mangaka compared to the rest. I mean, Sailor Moon has a canon lesbian couple and several lesbian/bi characters, Clamp is well, Clamp. Fushigi Yugi also has a gay character and implied canon gay pairing and of course there's Utena and Ouran High School Host Club's constant yaoi references. XD
Maybe I haven't watched/read enough Shojo but compared to what I've seen, Takaya-san seems strangely anti-LBGT. I don't know if you recall but there's a part in the last fanbook, the Banquet fanbook I think where she has a mini-comic series at the end talking about some of the characters and she literally states that she might have had Akito and Tohru end up together if Akito was a boy! Maybe I'm oversensitive, but that really rubbed me the wrong way and seemed pretty homophobic. :/
Which is quite a shame because Takaya seems like quite the feminist, I only wish she was as sensitive to LBGT issues. I mean, it seems really unrealistic to have ALL her characters be straight without even a single gay or bi character.
lol! What's funny about that is I even heard that back when that secret was first revealed in the early days of the fandom there was quite a ruckus over it. Suddenly, fans who had absolutely adored Akito now hated her and thought she was a bitch! Glad I wasn't in the fandom when that was going on, it seemed quite ridiculous. I mean, really misogyny much?
Yeah, they probably just did that because they knew that was the ending for the anime so they wanted to go out with a dramatic bang and add more realism to Tohru's character since the manga wasn't even in its middle volumes and thus they had no idea what Tohru was really like. I guess it worked... I'm just so attached to manga Tohru that I sort of have mixed feelings about that scene, ha-ha.
Seriously! If Sailor Moon could get a more faithful adaptation, do you think Fruits Basket is next? :( Because personally, this series needs it even more than SM does, at least the Sailor Moon anime was a complete series in and of itself!
The Kyou and Kyoko thing you could kinda see coming if you squint in the earlier volumes though, also think about it: Kyo, Kyoko. Basically the same name, only Kyoko has the "ko" added to it, what does that tell you? ;)
Yeah, but while I was okay with that, there were other things that definitely seemed completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Like, take for instance the whole backstory with Ren. Sooo the only reason she hates her child and raises her as a boy was cause she was jealous because she thought her husband loved their daughter more than her? What normal parent even thinks like this, that doesn't make sense! It made more sense when they explained why the Jyuunishi mothers would reject their children, because hey that was believable!
But expecting us to believe a mother outright despising her own daughter and trying to kill her because of jealousy? No, sorry, that's not realistic. Maybe if they explained the reason WHY Ren even thought that way, since thinking that way is clearly not normal it would've been easier to swallow but they didn't even do that and so it just came off as contrived and a quick way to wrap up Akito's backstory. Shame though, Ren had so much potential as the manga's true villian/antagonist too...
That's another reason I hated that Takaya refused to include any gay characters or gay couplings in the manga, I mean when I first read through it I was seriously expecting Yuki/Kakeru to be Yuki's endgame. No joke, they're literally perfect for each other. But nooooo, Takaya had to pair up Yuki with his sister, and fit everyone into nice, neat little straight pairings. No LBGT awareness in this manga, even if the characters actually DID mesh well together!
Oh god, don't even get me started on Yuki/Kakeru! I have a ton of feelings on this pairing and its one of my Fruits Basket OTPs, I really really strongly believe they should have been canon. The whole "Kakeru had a girlfriend" storyline even kinda seemed like something that was shoved in last minute to discourage the readers from shipping Kakeru/Yuki, "because look guiz! Kakeru's totally straight, yessiree!"
Ugh!
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on 2012-11-04 07:04 am (UTC)That makes sense.
But honestly, yeah I get what you mean, that was also one of my main issues with the manga. While I love the Akito character and the whole extremely feminist concept behind her, her whole cross-dressing thing did seem pretty transphobic, though that's nothing to say of Ritsu's character arc which seemed completely transphobic!
So much this. There was a ton of potential in the first half of the series that was never quite followed up on, and in retrospect, a lot of it reads as queerbaiting. It might just be that Takaya thought she was actually being progressive, but if that's the case, then it's even more disappointing. There were just so many characters that fell out of gender norms or seemed about as straight as boiled pasta, so with every development that contradicted this, it was like, ".....oh," one after the other.
Also, for a series that's about love and acceptance, it comes across as even more baffling.
Really? I've not had that experience with the Shojo I read. Natsuki Takaya actually seems one of the more anti-LBGT Shojo mangaka compared to the rest. I mean, Sailor Moon has a canon lesbian couple and several lesbian/bi characters, Clamp is well, Clamp. Fushigi Yugi also has a gay character and implied canon gay pairing and of course there's Utena and Ouran High School Host Club's constant yaoi references. XD
There's a ton of shoujo that does the exact same things Furuba does, if not worse. CLAMP is...yeah, I have some problems with their treatment of certain things (for example, their f/f couples usually get the axe), but they're better than average. anime!Utena is awesome and dear to me, but the manga falls down on a lot of the queer things the anime pulls off so well. Like, a lot of the examples you mention are more queer-friendly, but for every single one of them, there are at least ten that aren't. There's just so many examples, and most of them aren't translated or brought over from Japan...
Maybe I haven't watched/read enough Shojo but compared to what I've seen, Takaya-san seems strangely anti-LBGT. I don't know if you recall but there's a part in the last fanbook, the Banquet fanbook I think where she has a mini-comic series at the end talking about some of the characters and she literally states that she might have had Akito and Tohru end up together if Akito was a boy! Maybe I'm oversensitive, but that really rubbed me the wrong way and seemed pretty homophobic.
Yeah, I remember that. It's a shame! As much as I enjoy Furuba, what kind of cool plot twists and developments could we have had if she wasn't limited by her own prejudices?
Which is quite a shame because Takaya seems like quite the feminist, I only wish she was as sensitive to LBGT issues. I mean, it seems really unrealistic to have ALL her characters be straight without even a single gay or bi character.
You can fudge the lines a bit with certain characters like Haru and Ayame and read them as bisexual or pansexual, but it doesn't seem to be an author-supported reading. (Not that I think everyone is obliged to stick to what the text points to, but I do think it's useful for drawing conclusions wrt analysis.)
What's funny about that is I even heard that back when that secret was first revealed in the early days of the fandom there was quite a ruckus over it. Suddenly, fans who had absolutely adored Akito now hated her and thought she was a bitch! Glad I wasn't in the fandom when that was going on, it seemed quite ridiculous. I mean, really misogyny much?
Ahahahah. Reading this made me laugh because I was keeping track of the manga as it came out, and yes, fans did go completely insane. Everyone was floored by it. A lot of it was just surprise -- even I thought it was a shock -- but some fans took it even further and posted long tl:dr rants on the internet. I remember that there actually were fans who completely revised their opinion and glommed onto Akito's character, but there were definitely extreme reactions.
Yeah, they probably just did that because they knew that was the ending for the anime so they wanted to go out with a dramatic bang and add more realism to Tohru's character since the manga wasn't even in its middle volumes and thus they had no idea what Tohru was really like. I guess it worked... I'm just so attached to manga Tohru that I sort of have mixed feelings about that scene, ha-ha.
And that's perfectly fine! I think that Furuba's shift from dramedy to drama-with-lighter-moments was probably something the anime staff didn't see coming, and so their interpretation of certain things was a bit off. Going back to the question of whether the show itself worked or not, though, I have to add that their execution of certain scenes was absolutely pitch-perfect and really added emotive value to the same events in earlier volumes. I'm not sure that it would have made the same impression if I had gone into the manga cold.
Seriously! If Sailor Moon could get a more faithful adaptation, do you think Fruits Basket is next? :( Because personally, this series needs it even more than SM does, at least the Sailor Moon anime was a complete series in and of itself!
Anything is possible! I don't know if Furuba has the sustained popularity required to see something like that through, though...it is a long manga.
The Kyou and Kyoko thing you could kinda see coming if you squint in the earlier volumes though, also think about it: Kyo, Kyoko. Basically the same name, only Kyoko has the "ko" added to it, what does that tell you?
I don't have the manga on hand with me, but were they written with the same kanji?
But expecting us to believe a mother outright despising her own daughter and trying to kill her because of jealousy? No, sorry, that's not realistic. Maybe if they explained the reason WHY Ren even thought that way, since thinking that way is clearly not normal it would've been easier to swallow but they didn't even do that and so it just came off as contrived and a quick way to wrap up Akito's backstory. Shame though, Ren had so much potential as the manga's true villian/antagonist too...
Ren is one of the few characters I truly think Furuba could do without; her existence in the story is basically a contrivance to wrap up loose ends.
That's another reason I hated that Takaya refused to include any gay characters or gay couplings in the manga, I mean when I first read through it I was seriously expecting Yuki/Kakeru to be Yuki's endgame. No joke, they're literally perfect for each other. But nooooo, Takaya had to pair up Yuki with his sister, and fit everyone into nice, neat little straight pairings. No LBGT awareness in this manga, even if the characters actually DID mesh well together!
I can understand shipping Yuki/Kakeru; they do have pretty good chemistry. I want to argue that for Yuki's character arc, having a good friend was just as important to his development, so there's no need for Yuki/Kakeru...but that being the case, there's no need for Yuki/Machi as romantic endgame as well. I'm fine with Machi in general, but while she does have a connection to Kakeru, most of her existence revolves around being Yuki's love interest, and so I can't help but read her as a satellite character instead.
The thing is, you can become a strong, fulfilled person without romance being the catalyst for that change. I love that Yuki made the shift to looking out for others after realizing that there were people who cared about and reached out to him, but this "romantic love trumps all!!!" theme leaves me a little dissatisfied. Just because he "lost" to Kyou wrt Tohru, it doesn't mean he needs another romantic interest to make up for it.
Re: this is gonna be long
on 2012-11-08 04:18 am (UTC)But yeah, the fact that the series was all about unconditional love and acceptance and yet it didn't feature any LBGT characters was really disappointing and quite contradictory of its theme. Oh well, at least we can always hypothesize that perhaps some of the characters were bi, I still think Ayame is and honestly... I kinda feel Saki is a straight up lesbian! No joke, her feelings for Tohru reminded me alot of Tomoyo's feelings for Sakura and really I never took the whole pairing her up with Kazuma seriously. I don't think it ever became canon at the end and I firmly believe Saki was just joking around about having feelings for Kazuma, probably to annoy Kyo. XD
Yep, okay its now my very own little headcanon that Saki was meant to be lesbian and have an unrequited love for Tohru which was never fulfilled, putting her in the same camp as Momiji and Kagura. That actually makes me feel better about Takaya's lack of LBGT sensitivity, though I still wish there was at least one homosexual couple.
But damn, I'm surprised to hear that about other Shojo manga! Guess I'm glad those haven't ever really been brought over because I really can't stand it when series just completely ignore the subject all together and just act like their universe is a "perfect normal world where its all only straight people" yuck! :/
Oh yes, Utena is a masterpiece! It's simply breathtaking, though I agree with you on the manga, it was okay but not on the level of the anime. Which isn't surprising since the anime is the original work and the manga followed after. I've noticed that the work that comes first tends to be better than subsequent works in different mediums.
Oh lawd...! lol, just lol! I am soo thankful I never was in the fandom during its run, so, so thankful! That sounds drama of epic proportions, good god! What's weird though is since I've been browsing all kinds of fanfiction from all the different time periods of Fruits Basket I see Akito featured more prominently post gender reveal then pre-gender reveal. Despite the fans complaints I think that little twist made her one of the more popular Furuba characters for some reason.
Glad I wasn't the only one that was peeved with that little comment in the Fanbook, I thought that was completely uncalled for! But then again, I heard a rumor that Takaya gets extremely pissed if anyone makes yaoi or yuri doujinshi of her work and I think she even filed lawsuits against people who did that? If that rumor was true then I guess it's not surprising she made that comment in the fanbook.
Really? You don't think Furuba is popular enough to get a remake? I thought it was the most popular shojo manga in America? Or at least that's what its logo was in all the Tokyopop editions. I've also heard it has quite the fandom overseas, I was always under the impression that it was one of more popular Shojo series, on par with Sailor Moon. But you're right, the anime by itself is a very good standalone product. The fact that it could produce such a fanbase of people who have never even read the manga really shows just how well done of a series it was from the material they had.
I still really really really reallly wish there'll be a remake someday, but oh well I'll just keep silently sitting here and hoping. :3
Ha-ha, I have no idea if Kyoko and Kyo have the same Kanji because I only read the English versions and I didn't know that's how you tell if the names are supposed to be similar. I'm still quite the beginner in Japanese, so I only go by hiragana and katakana. XD But really? You thought Ren was one of those unneeded characters? I thought she was pretty damn important since she was basically the series's main antagonist and most plot-oriented stories need a main antagonist.
Granted, she was an extremely underdeveloped one. For the kind of role she had she really should've shown up earlier in the manga or at least more often, I admit she definitely sucked as a villain.
Damn, with how you describe Yuki's character arc, I'm starting to see Machi as also one of the more "useless" later characters. Well, maybe not useless but it definitely would have made more of an impact if she'd just remained a side-character and was there to show how Yuki had finally found his place with a group of friends all his own. His whole involvement with the student council was about him taking charge of his life and moving on from the scars that his mother and Akito caused him. Him joining the student council and making friends with that whole group was basically him finally growing up and trying to make something of himself with everything that he's since learned with Tohru all ingrained within him.
The fact that Takaya decided to just ultimately focus on his relationship with Machi in particular definitely lessened the impact of his arc. That would've been absolutely brilliant if they just showed Yuki finding contentment in finally having friends that accepted and embraced the real him, since I think that's all he ever really wanted. He wanted true friends and unconditional acceptance, I don't know I never really saw him as the type that would end up in a relationship even before he was cast out of the running for Tohru's heart, I guess that's why the whole "she's like a mother to me" didn't bother me a whole lot. ((Though ironically, I thought that would have suited Momiji's character more than Yuki's))
But hey, at least we get happy singles with Momiji and Kagura... Though one could argue they're the characters with the saddest endings so maybe they don't really count?
Re: this is gonna be long
on 2012-11-16 07:11 am (UTC)Well, he is a snake! Snakes coil around all over the place.
I can see him being into Mine, but I read him as being cheerfully pansexual and not really caring what anyone thinks about it. One of the things bell and I discussed in one of our posts is how Akito latched on to all of the adult Juunishi men except for Ayame, and I guessed that one reason was because things tend to slide off Ayame like water, so it's harder to make a mark on him in that sense. (And especially so in the past, given that he became more inclined to self-reflection in the present.) That, and I'm assuming that Akito doesn't like effeminate men, given that she ignores Ritsu too.
But yeah, the fact that the series was all about unconditional love and acceptance and yet it didn't feature any LBGT characters was really disappointing and quite contradictory of its theme. Oh well, at least we can always hypothesize that perhaps some of the characters were bi, I still think Ayame is and honestly... I kinda feel Saki is a straight up lesbian! No joke, her feelings for Tohru reminded me alot of Tomoyo's feelings for Sakura and really I never took the whole pairing her up with Kazuma seriously. I don't think it ever became canon at the end and I firmly believe Saki was just joking around about having feelings for Kazuma, probably to annoy Kyo. XD
It's kind of hard not to read Hana-chan that way -- especially in her flashback chapter, where she thinks of both Uo and Tohru as her friends, but seems much more dependent on Tohru's kindness. The whole Hana/Kazuma bit was totally out of left-field for me too.
Yep, okay its now my very own little headcanon that Saki was meant to be lesbian and have an unrequited love for Tohru which was never fulfilled, putting her in the same camp as Momiji and Kagura. That actually makes me feel better about Takaya's lack of LBGT sensitivity, though I still wish there was at least one homosexual couple.
Word.
But damn, I'm surprised to hear that about other Shojo manga! Guess I'm glad those haven't ever really been brought over because I really can't stand it when series just completely ignore the subject all together and just act like their universe is a "perfect normal world where its all only straight people" yuck! :/
It's not only series where there's no queer characters/themes period; I'm also thinking of manga where they are introduced, only to be treated poorly by the narrative. And the frustrating thing is that a lot of series really do bring in tons of interesting ideas at the outset, and fulfill some of that promise, but then undermine it with regressive writing. This happens a LOT.
Oh yes, Utena is a masterpiece! It's simply breathtaking, though I agree with you on the manga, it was okay but not on the level of the anime. Which isn't surprising since the anime is the original work and the manga followed after. I've noticed that the work that comes first tends to be better than subsequent works in different mediums.
Re: Utena: probably still my favorite anime ever?!? I don't know, I haven't rewatched it in a while, but it is just so amazing. I can't imagine what my time in anime fandom would have been like if I hadn't stumbled on it.
And yeah, usually the source material is better, even wrt books-->movies and other adaptations. I think that when stories are adapted, a lot of attention had to be paid to the strengths and limitations of the medium, but a lot of the time, it's transcripted flat from one source to the other. (Like for example, I can't wait to see how Les Mis and The Great Gatsby are going to be adapted to film, but I'm also slightly apprehensive.)
Glad I wasn't the only one that was peeved with that little comment in the Fanbook, I thought that was completely uncalled for! But then again, I heard a rumor that Takaya gets extremely pissed if anyone makes yaoi or yuri doujinshi of her work and I think she even filed lawsuits against people who did that? If that rumor was true then I guess it's not surprising she made that comment in the fanbook.
Where did that rumor even come from? I've never heard of something like a lawsuit happening with any creator, much less with Takaya. I'm kind of skeptical, since copyright laws are so different from the West (and imo, more lax, given the rampant production and consumption of fan-marketed goods).
Really? You don't think Furuba is popular enough to get a remake? I thought it was the most popular shojo manga in America? Or at least that's what its logo was in all the Tokyopop editions. I've also heard it has quite the fandom overseas, I was always under the impression that it was one of more popular Shojo series, on par with Sailor Moon. But you're right, the anime by itself is a very good standalone product. The fact that it could produce such a fanbase of people who have never even read the manga really shows just how well done of a series it was from the material they had.
I think it was super popular when it was still in serialization, but it's still on the obscure side everything considered. Also, I wouldn't say it has a quarter of the impact and popularity Sailormoon does -- if I mention the latter to any of my students, they nod in recognition, but I'm pretty sure that Furuba is unheard of even with the geekier kids I know. Even though it won the Kodansha award, I think it had more recognition in the US overall? My memory is kind of fuzzy.
I still really really really reallly wish there'll be a remake someday, but oh well I'll just keep silently sitting here and hoping. :3
If it ever does, we can cheer for it together!
Ha-ha, I have no idea if Kyoko and Kyo have the same Kanji because I only read the English versions and I didn't know that's how you tell if the names are supposed to be similar. I'm still quite the beginner in Japanese, so I only go by hiragana and katakana. XD But really? You thought Ren was one of those unneeded characters? I thought she was pretty damn important since she was basically the series's main antagonist and most plot-oriented stories need a main antagonist.
Granted, she was an extremely underdeveloped one. For the kind of role she had she really should've shown up earlier in the manga or at least more often, I admit she definitely sucked as a villain.
Her role in the series is definitely important, but she's paper-thin as far as characterization goes. I think we basically agree, but we're expressing it in different ways.
Still, you bring up an interesting point: did Furuba need a main antagonist? For a long time, that seems to be the role that Akito plays, but as more of the characters' inner worlds are shown, the more it seems like the real antagonist is the Sohma curse itself. Furuba is definitely plot-oriented, but there's also an equal emphasis on character psychology and development. For example, the resolution of the story clicks not just with a literal turn in events (the curse breaking) but with emotional fulfillment and freedom as well. That's why I still can't help but think that inserting Ren as a villain was just...lacking, somehow.
Damn, with how you describe Yuki's character arc, I'm starting to see Machi as also one of the more "useless" later characters. Well, maybe not useless but it definitely would have made more of an impact if she'd just remained a side-character and was there to show how Yuki had finally found his place with a group of friends all his own. His whole involvement with the student council was about him taking charge of his life and moving on from the scars that his mother and Akito caused him. Him joining the student council and making friends with that whole group was basically him finally growing up and trying to make something of himself with everything that he's since learned with Tohru all ingrained within him.
The fact that Takaya decided to just ultimately focus on his relationship with Machi in particular definitely lessened the impact of his arc. That would've been absolutely brilliant if they just showed Yuki finding contentment in finally having friends that accepted and embraced the real him, since I think that's all he ever really wanted. He wanted true friends and unconditional acceptance, I don't know I never really saw him as the type that would end up in a relationship even before he was cast out of the running for Tohru's heart, I guess that's why the whole "she's like a mother to me" didn't bother me a whole lot.
It did click for me that Takaya thought of Yuki as the second protagonist of the story, after Tohru. That's why a lot of the student council focus chapters that baffled me while reading made sense in retrospect. If you look at it from the perspective of Yuki as "second love interest," it makes hardly any sense at all, but as a character with a solid (and separate) plotline of his own, it works perfectly. Maybe decoy protagonist is the right term to use here, since the amount of attention he and Kyou got were roughly equal until about volume eleven. After that, Yuki's development was mostly sans Tohru, and Kyou's was in conjunction with hers.
So with that established, maybe Takaya is just one of those writers who thinks that romance is a vital part of a main character's storyline??? Or maybe she didn't want it to seem like Yuki's development was overshadowed by everything else, and that romance would get more reader interest? Who knows.
Though ironically, I thought that would have suited Momiji's character more than Yuki's))
That would have been interesting!
But hey, at least we get happy singles with Momiji and Kagura... Though one could argue they're the characters with the saddest endings so maybe they don't really count?
They really did get the short end of the stick with everything, especially where Momiji's concerned. Out of all the Juunishi, Momiji is probably the one I feel most for; if any character deserved real happiness, it was him without a doubt. How do you feel about the way his character arc ends?
On a perfectly serious note, however, Kagura and Momiji seem very capable of ruling the entire world together one day. Through sheer cuteness and implausible age-denying abilities, if nothing else.
Re: this is gonna be long
on 2012-12-12 02:36 am (UTC)Anywayyys!
Yeah, Ayame's definitely pansexual he just seems the type who would be all about "free love" and wouldn't give a fuck about silly things like gender, really his whole personality screams that! Really, I think that's the whole reason Ayame was ignored by Akito, his personality I imagine was just wayy too irritating and annoying to her so she preferred to keep him as far away as possible.
I actually have a personal headcanon that while she was always closest to the 5 older Jyuunishi boys born before her, Ayame and Ritsu were like the two annoying older brothers who she always wanted to go away while Shigure, Hatori and Kureno were the "caretaker doting older brothers" that she always wanted to be around.
Actually other than those two Akito also never interacted with Kagura... I have a feeling she avoided those three because they just have the personality type that she absolutely abhorrs: Loud.
They're extremely loud, energetic people and I think she just didn't want to deal with them since even TRYING to torture them would just result in a headache, see while her most hated Jyuunishi were Kisa, Rin and Momiji, at least she could stand to be around them since since they aren't quite so... loud.
Well, actually Momiji is loud too, but I think that unlike Kagura, Ayame and Ritsu Momiji knows when to control it and his loudness is more just being happy rather then well "loud" so Akito can tolerate being around him.
The other three though? Nope. If she did anything to Kagura, Ayame and Ritsu they'd just burst out, make a scene and give her a headache so she left them alone and stayed far far away XD
Oh but I definitely agree that Akito also probably hated Ritsu because of the way he dresses, she was all jelly that even a MAN can dress girly and be feminine and she can't!
Sometimes I wonder if she also envied Yuki's girlish looks and resented him for that too...
Strangely enough I think deep down, Akito's probably the most feminine and girly of the zodiac girls.
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I still hold the opinion that the whole Hana/Kazuma thing was played off as a joke, in my mind Hana remains happily single, still in love with Tohru but is happy that her loved one is happy and that's enough for her, just like Tomoyo! XD
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Utena is amazing, truly an anime masterpice, that one and Princess Tutu are probably the two deepest anime I've ever watched! There needs to be a remake of that one too because gahhh its spectacular!
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Hmm, it might have been just a rumor then, I forgot where I heard it but I think it was on some forum or something, but yeah you're probably right. I mean I think if Takaya was THAT homophobic then she wouldn't have written things as subtexty as she did concerning Ayame, Haru and Hana.
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Maybe Sailor Moon got more popular cause it was aired on national television while the Furuba anime wasn't? I noticed series tend to get popular depending on the popularity of their anime unfortunately.((Even when the manga is usually soo much better)) So an anime that airs on TV versus one that doesn't is definitely gonna get more viewers and thus, be more well-known, I mean its not just Sailor Moon! Look at Pokemon, CCS, Naruto, Inuyasha, Bleach, FMA
All these anime are also extremely well-known even among non-anime fans and that's probably due to them airing on American television
I betcha anything that if the Sailor Moon anime hadn't managed to make its way onto television ((and was the same length as the Furuba anime)) it would be pretty obscure too, especially since the manga's so short to begin with!
This was news to me though, Furuba is more popular in America than Japan? Really? I thought it was considered like a mainstream shojo title that middle-schoolers read, its hard to believe it would be even less well known then here. :0
But alas, if that's true that just plummets the chances even more for a Furuba anime remake, sad. That was a series that should have really followed its source material, because the manga was just THAT amazing!
Also while we're on the subject, where is my goddamned CCS remake happening?! Specifically a remake of the second season... Because anime, as much as I love you, you do NOT take out the single, most important plot point regarding Sakura's connection to Clow Reed, you just dont!
That's like, the basis of the whole plot, without that you just have the story of a girl who becomes the master of magical cards left by some dead magician that she happened to find in her library, without any explanation as to how that book "got" there or how Sakura even HAS magical powers in the first place!
//end CCS anime rant.
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Oh my god, yes, yes, yess! Furuba is completely a character centered plot and so for that if there is a villain then really, that villain needs to have pretty goddamn deep characterizaton and an explanation over how and why they're the way they are.
Ren sort of failed in all those areas which is why she kinda falls flat as a villain to me, really I think my main problem with her is that they didn't explore her enough, if the manga had and there was a logical explanation as to why she felt that way about Akira loving their own daughter then I'd have no problem with her but the sole explanation that was given with barely any screen-time?
....Yeah, it definitely felt like Takaya just pulled it all out of her ass at the last minute! She probably thought that sounded like a tragic enough explanation but failed to explain the "whys" behind it, so all in all it just appeared awkward.
I feel the exact same way about Shigure's intense desire for Akito due to that dream too by the way.
Actually, someone I know once brought up an interesting theory about Furuba, they felt that the "curse" itself was the real villain! And really, if you think about it that fits perfectly and would make an amazing metaphorical statement!
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Really? I never felt he was a decoy, I was under the impression that he, Tohru, and Kyou were all the main protagonists of the story. Sure, he stopped being Tohru's love interest but the manga still divided the focus pretty equally, though I do admit that it got kind of annoying how later in the manga it seemed to be "ALL AKITO ALL THE TIME!"
But other than that, I never felt the spotlight was taken away from him or anything, really the problem here was just that there were too many characters in general, and most of these were important, plot-relevant characters!
I mean, when you can only give the supposed "real" antagonist 3 scenes and a one chapter, half-baked explanation you KNOW you've got a problem!
If she really wanted to focus on all the characters equally, she really should've made it longer, or maybe sacrificed a few characters instead for it to be the length we got? Because, in my opinion it doesn't really work just the way it is... Heck, the Sailor Moon manga had this exact same problem!
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I literally wept like a baby when I got to the end and found no "Momiji reuniting with his family." I think that's the main thing that really showed how Furuba was actually quite the tragedy and was meant to be bittersweet.
I almost feel Momiji was meant to be the "martyr" of the story, especially on how he seems to be the most genuine kindest and selfless person in the whole series! ((Of course Tohru is too, but unlike Momiji she has quite a lot of dark thoughts)).
The whole "Traveler" story he kept on telling really pushed home this fact, and really I both love it and hate it!
Love it because it tugs at my heartstrings and shows that not everyone can be happy and find acceptance, and really? Sometimes the nice people really ARE the losers in the end, but that's also extremely realistic so I applaud Takaya for that!
Of course I also hate it because Momiji was in my top 3 favorite characters of this series and all I wanted was for him to have his happy ending! T_T
Oh but yes, yes, Kagura and Momiji taking over the world? Together? This needs to happen! Like, right now, someone write a fic of this!
With Kagura as ruler of the world no one would DARE start up any wars because they'd be too scared of her wrath. XD
Also OT, but ZOMG PERSO-FREAKIN-POLIS?! You're a fan of that movie/comic too?! I fucking loved that one, it seriously needs more of a fandom!
no subject
on 2012-10-11 11:52 am (UTC)no subject
on 2012-10-11 07:41 pm (UTC)